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10.16.2004 Apparently - umbraco doesn't suck! Jeffrey Veen has written a blogpost about why "Open source content management software sucks". After reading it I'm very proud to be one of the makers of open source content management who wonder if what he writes really is true. I had an idea that most of the systems out there aren't to well designed or aren't meant to be used by anybody but the developers who makes them. But apparently he's right. That is at least until umbraco came! I'll answer why umbraco doesn't suck by using the reasons Veen gives in the blogpost:
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Comments:
Well... bring on the demo! Does it run on apache with a mySql database or do I have to change my hostingprovider? Gimme the specs please!
I agree that there are a few CMSs that come close to yours. But definetely an open source CMS mostly succeeds on open source infrastructere. your software does not support linux (it should be php or perl etc.). so, imho, if you make transition to LAMP system it's best way. i really like to use on my main site and my customers' but impossible because i'm on linux.
Oh yes -> umbraco is based on .NET and requieres SQL Server. So it's not based on open source infrastructure. We're planning to support other data-providers in the next version but it's *only* on the planning stage.
We've chosen the .NET platform because we think it's brilliant, and of course you can create open source software even if you're using platforms that aren't. We haven't tested umbraco on Mono but chances are big that it will work :-) And as a side notice - the download on umbraco.org does not contain source. We'll release it when we release the Release Candidate mid november. If you really wanna have our current solution files, then send me a mail!
The disease in any society is an attachment to an ethos.
You are naive to think that the meaning of open source means that it HAS to run on open source systems. Linux doesn't run on top of open free systems. You have to pay for your hardware. I personally think that .NET is superior to any programming environment available in Linux. If it so happens that the system works well on Microsoft, then the system should be built on microsoft. Fundamentalism fucks up society from every angle. I praise Umbraco for taking Open Source in a direction that I haven't yet seen and creating a decent piece of software that doesn't suck.
The comment that all open source CMSes should run on LAMP is severely misguided. Obviously that person has never worked in a company where "we use MS servers exclusively" is a top-down decision. When a department needs to launch an internal or external project in such a company, contrary to popular belief, there's often minimual (or no!) budget to purchase a CMS. And buying a server to run LAMP isn't an option either, even if the budget were there.
So, what's the option? Use a lame Dreamweaver templated site, install an open source portal system that doesn't really need the need, or roll-your-own CMS. All not great ideas. I'm glad Umbraco is available on .NET. I'm going to evaluate it later this month. I'm guessing if it's halfway decent and a better fit than DNN/Rainbow are, it will find a large receptive audience among the tens of thousands of MS developers who can't afford $1,000-$50,000+ price tags for software to manage their website. I'm not even going to get into the weak "add-on" hack that I think is PHP "object-oriented" programming. Or the relative ease of admining a Linux vs. Win server for part-time admins. Because in many companies such technical decisions are overriden further up the management chain. Moving forward with Umbraco development, if you can get Mono compatibility and add a Firebird DB data layer, you'll get all the advantages of advanced .NET programming AND be able to run software that's 100% free, from OS to browser. That would be sweet, and completely eliminate this silly argument... PS: Regarding source code, a DLL is fine with me, as long as you have a fabulous API and add-in structure for adding functionality, beyond additional custom content modules. That's something the DNN/RB competitors lack.
I've got Umbraco installed, and I like a lot of things about it. As far as I can tell, some features
are either not implemented yet, or not implemented in the english-beta that I have. I'm not bothered by seeing half the admin in Danish. I hear that in a few days they'll be releasing the latest version which will be both english and danish. I'm building a list of wishes, possible bugs, and questions to shoot them. Mostly, I like the fact of separation of the site from the site tools, unlimited templating, and the flexible views of the HTML. Thus my site can have a non-membership face, or I can put a login button on the site. Some of the bugs I'm experiencing are preventing me testing all the features, so I'm hoping the release comes soon. Or perhaps these bugs are due to a faulty installation on my part. I do hope Niels can open an english-speaking forum really soon! Here's my wish list, some of which are probably implemented, but just not obvious to me: WISH LIST 1.. Mouse-hover text tooltips on the toolbar 2.. Resizable screen for "Edit HTML" code view (There is also a WYSIWYG and a tags view) 3.. News Macro: Need to be able to indicate order of display (sort="alphabetical", sort="date" sort="descending", sort="ascending", etc.) 4.. News Macro: Need to be able to limit date range based on creation date (e.g. last 30 days, or between 7 days and 60 days) 5.. News Macro: Need to be able to edit creation date. 6.. Renaming control panel directory should be doable through a single admin setting which will rewrite configs and other hard-wired references. (Templates can be manually updated if there are login links) 7.. Login Welcome screen: I want to put content on that welcome screen. 8.. Need a logout button for the control panel!! 9.. Need choice to expire the control panel login as soon as the browser closes. Currently only allows for time-delimited open sessions (cookies) 10.. News Macro: Default install should have example of news archive so site creators don't have to guess how to set one up. Are there news categories, or is each category treated as a separate news strip? Is there a way to blend all the news categories into a single display (such as the home page), and sort them with the above sorts? How about dynamically producing a link list of all the news macro instances? 11.. I'd like to have a global "publish" button (since "save" and "publish" are not the same). 12.. Article: Do not publish before - date (overrides all macro time delimiters) 13.. Settings: Ability to create custom fields for content properties screen. (e.g. checkbox for "edited", "reviewed", "approved". True/false data will be preserved when the content is updated. Data can be used in macros. That's it for now.
Of course you can develop open source products on top of closed ones, but it puts both your own product and it's customers in a worse situation than without, in terms of exchanging certain components, or heavily modify it's initial intended uses.
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"Linux doesn't run on top of open free systems. You have to pay for your hardware." - Well here you talk about free as in no money, I'm much more concerned with closed hardware standards (i.e. Apple hardware) where you are suddenly forced to retreat your development because you need a change built into a closed component (be it hard or software etc.). Until a full .NET is available from other vendors than Microsoft, I see no reason for tying up your own legs by using it for anything above hobby, training.. No offense to your product or the efficiency of Microsoft .NET platform, I just mind the legal stuff in the matter. Best regards Fini A. Alring Older stuff here... |
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